_gaq.push(['_trackPageview']); Released by Winchester in 1952 (and adopted by NATO in 1954 as the 7.62x51mm NATO), the 308 Winchester has gained universal acceptance amongst shooters of all types. or remuneration from anyone. Do a search for .308 and you will find similar results, albeit with fewer references to 7.62. them by name does not constitute an endorsement of any kind. Barrel length, Barrel length and velocity, External Ballistic Data, Rifles 7.62 NATO (a.k.a., 7.62x51mm) and .308 Winchester are two very common rifle cartridges commonly used by U.S. service members and civilians. About the short rifles, Ive written quite a bit about 16 308s: http://rifleshooter.com/2015/02/the-16-inch-308-winchester-bolt-action-rifle/. Yes, I do. While the .30-06 was again proving itself in Korea, the Army experimented with a variant of the .300 Savage that is designated the T65. recording sheets. This is not shown in the data, nor has was it shown in data for the 223 and 300 Win Mag posts. This resulted in a velocity loss of 137 feet/second. contrast, the chamber pressure of 5.56 NATO is only roughly 75% of that, at about 60,000 PSI, while 6.5 Creedmoor and .308 Win have only slightly higher chamber pressures at 62,000 PSI. I only had enough ammunition and time to test five rounds at each barrel length. of this rather nutty project. Here is a list of all 23 different data sets we have tested. All content Copyright 1998-2018 Rifleshooter.com, FTC disclosure: some links on this site are monetized, Sig Sauer MCX Virtus PCP Air Rifle Review- Initial Impressions, Project Guns- Gunsmithing articles and posts, 308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO: Barrel Length versus Velocity (28 to 16.5), 223 Remington/5.56mm NATO Barrel length versus Velocity- Short Barrels- 6 to 14 inches. This calculator will produce a ballistic trajectory chart that shows the bullet drop, bullet energy, windage, and velocity. The 300 Blackout's sleeker bullet has a higher ballistic coefficient than the 5.5645, but with less speed its trajectory invariably arcs more sharply. Would be more interesting to see maybe 35 barrel down to 28 Have always heard that barrels quit increasing in velocity after 34. The action had a 223 bolt face, so I opened it and installed a Sako extractor. The rifle with a shorter barrel was louder. This is how semi-auto Here is our 308 Winchester ballistics chart page, where we feature info from Federal, Hornady, Remington, and Winchester. We stopped at 500 yards, but I had some legit 2.5 500 yard 5 shot groups. Are 7.62 NATO (a.k.a. The 243 Win's muzzle velocity hinges on its bullet weight. In fact the .308 Winchester 165gr bullet is traveling faster at 1000 yards than the .223 or 7.62x39mm at just 500 yds. When you switch this out with a .308 Winchester round, the increased pressure, thinner walls, and extra space around the cartridge have the potential to cause the case to expand past its point of maximum elasticity. Comparing the data from the 30 shot strings (28 2824 and 16.5 2555) to the 5 shot strings (28 2823 and 16.5 2561) I found a loss of 269 ft/sec (23.4 ft/sec per inch) as the barrel was cut. Based on the data published in the Rifle Shooter article, the average of most efficient barrel length is 21.7 inches. This video from our friends over at Brownells have just what youre looking for. The Winchester 147 grain FMJ and IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ both showed little reduction in velocity as the barrel was cut from 28 to 26. Published Mar 29, 2021 12:55 PM EDT. The cartridges bullet is seated inside the top rim of the case (called the neck), and the primer is seated in a recess at the bottom of the case. This means throwing .308 rounds into the magazine of a 20-year-old M14 could set taxpayers back the cost of a new rifle and your medical bill at Walter Reed. _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-6323545-2']); Super Short Precision Rifles: Is there such thing as a 16.5 .308 Tactical Bolt Action Rifle? Ballistics Rifle Ballistics Ammo Description Velocity (fps) Energy (ft/lb) Trajectory Tables (inches) CARTRIDGE BULLET ITEM # MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd MUZ 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd V 17 Mach 2 15.5 gr. Super easy to install and remove the action from the stock. Here are a few pictures [], Without a doubt, the crown of a rifle is essential foraccuracy. All these details have been generated using our . You can then also add atmospheric conditions and angles. cartridge is also about .2-inch shorter. To make the test even more interesting, four different types of .308 Win factory ammunition were chronographed at each barrel length. So while more reliable results will be obtained with a larger sample size, the data generated from a smaller sample is still of some use (provided it doesnt contain an outlier- which is why I dont know of anyone using data from single shots). The average data for these four shot data sets is recorded in the table above, as well as the tables below. The bottom picture is the first group I shot with the rifle, 5-shots, .785 including cold bore. Share the post ".308 Win Velocity vs. Barrel Length 28 to 16.5 Cut-Down Test", Tags: .308 Win Barrel, Bill Marr Gunsmith, Cut-Down Test, Rifleshooter.com, Velocity barrel length, With the advent of internal Ballistics Simulators such as GRtools, MV per barrel length and MV per grain is just a simulation outcome. This is the point that a little more barrel will get a lot more from the round. According to multiple non-scientific studies, the average .308 case weighs in around 160 to 170 grains each, while 7.62 brass usually comes in at over 180 grains apiece. ammunition and other supplies, he was the brilliant gunsmith who worked with us to make The Model Seven uses the same barrel dimensions as the 700, so unscrewing the barrel mounting it on the Model Seven (checking head space of course) provided me a serviceable pistol . the Excel data sheets, with the muzzle energy calculations added in red, on the raw It will a produce a line graph showing the bullet drop and flight path of the bullet. real world guns. For hunting and tactical applications, I see a real benefit to the shorter barrels. I selected the Winchester Super-X 180 grain Power-Point as a representative hunting cartridge. Anyone who uses our data owes him The Winchester 147 grain FMJ lost 10 ft/sec (5 ft/sec per inch) and the IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ lost 22 ft/sec (11 ft/sec per inch). While the difference may feel minimal, this means that the interior of 7.6251 brass has less space for powder than a visually identical .308 Winchester case. Since we would be gathering data on 52 different barrel length and ammunition combinations and would not be crowning the barrel after each cut, we decided to eliminate gathering data on group sizes. the firearms community. A Many have noted the 308 Win's shortcomings, often attributing a great deal of its popularity to mere tradition. Tolerance is the acceptable degree of variance a manufacturer will allow for a product to meet quality standards. And if you think you could do better, feel free to spend the money At each cut length, velocity was measured with a Magnetospeed chronograph. That works out to an average loss of 22.7 fps per inch. No complaints, no problems. It says that at around the halfway point of 500 yards the bullet will have slowed by 900fps and while that may sound bad it really isn't in terms of a percentage of initial velocity compared to say the .223 Remington (would be 1481fps from initial 3214fps) or the 7.62x39mm (would be 1066fps from initial 2349fps). Much Different Results with 6mmBR and a Longer Barrel These graphs assume a 1.75 height of the optic over the bore and weather conditions of 59F. When a round is fired, the hot, expanding gasses inside the case force it to expand, causing the case to smash up against the walls of the chamber which in turn prevent the case from turning into a mini fragmentation grenade due to the extreme chemistry inside. Based on my limited experience with the 330 BLK and 7.62x39mm Russian (which are ballistically very similar to each other), I would guess a 10 308 with 150 grain bullets would give you similar velocities with a 125 grain projectile with far less blast and concussion. Since the 308 Winchesteris a popular hunting cartridge, I worked out the maximum point-blank range (MPBR, sometimes referred to as maximum point blank zero) for each barrel length with the given load assuming a 8 vital area. polygonal rifling + (More powder and more pressure). While I agree (as do most experienced shooters) that a long barrel isnt necessary for long range shooting, the post makes some pretty bold claims on accuracy (The test obliterated what was previously thought to be fact) that I dont think are supported by such a limited data set. I think cutting the same barrel is preferable over comparing different barrels of different lengths. Thanks for the kinds words about the 308 and 300 Win barrel length posts. _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-6323545-2']); Some say they are the same caliber, while others warn of an exploding rifle if you use the wrong cartridge in the wrong chamber. Initial testing was done on Remington 700 action in a rifle. The most significant decrease in barrel length occurred when the barrel was cut from 10 to 9. For a match or target rifle, longer and heavier barrels are easier to shoot; so I do not see a point in going short. I think he may be misquoting his source. This resulted in a velocity loss of 118 feet/second. Obviously this is a different cartridge type, but also our 6mmBR barrel end length was 5 longer than Rifleshooter.coms .308 Win start length. These things are known to be pretty tough, so that should be an indication of how much recoil was generated. Since we would be gathering data on 52 different barrel length and ammunition combinations and would not be crowning the barrel after each cut, we decided to eliminate gathering data on group sizes. The devil is in the details with the difference between the two boiling down to three key factors: pressure capacity, case sizing, and chamber dimensions. I shook vigorously from head to toe. home + It is too short to work with the TACMOD chassis forend, so now it is on the MDT LSS chassis. The U.S. Army lists the 7.62s effective range (and thus, the .308s range) as topping out at 800 meters, but in the spirit of interservice rivalry, the Marine Corps top brass raised the Army two and cites 1,000 meters as the rounds max effective range. Rifleshooter.com also offers ballistics graphs showing trajectories with different barrel lengths. A heavier bullet delivers greater energy upon impact at the expense of faster bullet drop which is nothing skilled . The 308 is slightly more powerful and has a longer range. For another measure of bullet power, some people prefer to use Muzzle Energy. Test Barrel Lost 22.7 FPS Per Inch (.308 Win Chambering) While there are differences between the amounts of pressure generated by each round, the nominal difference is around 12,000 PSI, although in practice, that number is closer to 4,000. As a Wildcatter it gets more so! You can find var _gaq = _gaq || []; Remington Model Seven Actions are available! In the following cases, Winchester 147 grain FMJ 12, Federal 168 grain Gold Medal 12 and 9, and Winchester 180 grain Power-Point 11, the chronograph only recorded 4 shots of the five shot string. The Federal Gold Medal 168 grain BTHP is ubiquitousin match and law enforcement usearound the world (I wasnt able to get enough 175 grain Gold Medal for the test). Even at 200 yards, it's still delivering high speeds, maintaining a velocity somewhere in the 2,400-2,500 range. I contribute this to the differences in barrel and headspace tolerances. While the external dimensions of both 7.6251 and .308 cases look identical, there are virtually imperceptible differences which, when combined with the differences in the two different chamber dimensions, result in different headspacing for each caliber. The answer may surprise you. For firearms and ammunition, these differences are measured in PSI, fractions of an inch, and millimeters. 22" is optimum for the 308,Longer will get more velocity, but at a price. That is actually not correct. How much velocity do you think was lost, on average, for each 1 reduction in barrel length? It's fine to 600-800 yards and is fine at that range out of an 18" barrel. The most significant decrease in barrel length occurred when the barrel was cut from 14 to 13. Despite winning two world wars in partnership with the M1903 Springfield and the M1 Garand, the long action .30-06 Springfield fell out of favor with the U.S. Army following World War II. The chamber is the portion of the firearm which hosts the cartridge prior to the firearm being fired. If you have a modern .308 Win. The cartridge is an ammunition assembly that combines the projectile (i.e., the bullet), propellant (or powder), and the primer (the ignition switch) into a single unit housed inside a cartridge case. So what does the charting of the .308 Winchester's external ballistics tell us exactly? The 7.6251 NATO chamber is imperceptibly longer than the .308 Winchester, extending between 0.006 and 0.010 inches beyond the .308 SAAMI specs. I fired 30 rounds of IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ at 28 and 16.5 and recorded the results. Typical 308 ballistics chart (long range match shooting) Ballistics chart generated in Shoot! The barreled action was then removed from the chassis, the barrel cut back one inch, reinstalled and fired again for the next set of data. Obviously this is a different cartridge type, but also our 6mmBR barrel end length was 5 longer than Rifleshooter.coms .308 Win start length. class bullets. on each to just browse the charts, click on a given ammunition type listed in the header of each chart If you have a newer 7.62 rifle, such as the civilian SCAR 17 or an AR-10 type carbine, always double-check with the manufacturer to determine whether or not you can safely chuck .308 rounds downrange. I am cutting up a barrel. Yes, I did for the 223 post. Is the file picture at the top of the page real, or photoshopped? cylinder gap + data is provided purely for entertainment purposes - to better facilitate arguments The U.S. militarys 7.62 round is used for long-distance small arms engagements with light machine guns, sharpshooter rifles, and shorter-range sniper rifles. Because of the arc of travel of the bullet you will hit dead center at 50 and 200 yards with a 50 yard zero. Since we first launched BBTI in November of 2008, it has become a primary reference tool for firearms enthusiasts of all stripes and from around the globe. Elasticity describes a materials ability to expand and contract, while plasticity refers to a materials ability to be stretched into a new shape without breaking (under reasonable amounts of stress). We (well, Jim K, 0. Short Rifle, Long Range: Testing our 16.5 308 Remington 700 out to 635 yards, 16.5 Inch 308 Winchester Precision Rifle: Summary of a Short Rifle. This stage was conducted on pistol built on a Model Seven action (note, you cant convert rifles to pistols in the US, to make a pistol you need to start with a virgin receiver that has never been a rifle). NTX 83176 2050 1450 1070 145 72 39 -1 5 0 -156 Once it reaches 500 yards, it has slowed but it's still maintaining . The results of those tests can be found on our blog. The testers observed: "The Berger Reloading manual says for the 308 Winchester, 'muzzle velocity will increase (or decrease) by approximately 20 fps per inch from a standard 24 barrel'." How the Test Was Done The testers described their procedure as follows: "Ballistic data was gathered using a Magnetospeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. Starting out at 2840fps muzzle velocity ( over 100fps faster than the standard A-MAX load from Hornady) this bullet is sighted-in to zero at 240 yards and is 39.16 low at 500 yards. ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? This could have some potentially expensive consequences. So it's not a shocker that the .308 would be a good cartridge. Rifleshooter.com also offers ballistics graphs showing trajectories with different barrel lengths. The thing I found most interesting , is the lines show the consistency of the ammunition ! The testers observed: The Berger Reloading manual says for the 308 Winchester, muzzle velocity will increase (or decrease) by approximately 20 fps per inch from a standard 24 barrel., How the Test Was Done It details drop, time, energy, velocity, range, and does so in 50 yard steps that are easy to understand. This creates a seal that prevents exhaust gases from exiting the firearm through any point except the barrel. Barrel length, Barrel length and velocity, Cartridge Selection The most significant decrease in barrel length occurred when the barrel was cut from 9 to 8. While using calipers to measure the walls of fired brass may cause less than conclusive results, the scale doesnt lie. This is especially useful for hunters, of who many, will hold center mass of a vital area on game and dont want to dial in a correction. 'https://ssl' : 'http://www') + '.google-analytics.com/ga.js'; The shot column represents the shot number in the respective string. Your choice. I like it a lot. At that distance, it retains 400 ft lbs of energy. The vast majority of rifles, carbines, and pistols chambered in .308 Winchester can safely sling 7.62 lead downrange and extract the thicker casings despite the longer headspace. When combined with properly specced ammunition, it seats the bullet in the proper position to begin its travel down the barrel. The maximum point blank range, allows a shooter to sight in his weapon at a given distance to hit a target of a given size when holding center mass. My calculations assume a 1.75 sight over bore height. 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Occurred when the barrel was cut from 10 to 9 you think was,! Work with the TACMOD chassis forend, so i opened it and installed a Sako extractor powerful and a! Fired brass may cause less than conclusive results, the average data for the kinds words the. Will produce a ballistic trajectory chart that shows the bullet drop, bullet energy, windage, velocity... Works out to an average loss of 22.7 fps per inch of travel of the arc of travel of ammunition... Be found on our blog at that distance, it retains 400 ft lbs energy... Point except the barrel was cut from 14 to 13 people prefer to use muzzle energy loss of feet/second. These four shot data sets we have tested atmospheric conditions and angles pictures... ; Remington Model Seven Actions are available factory ammunition were chronographed at barrel... Which hosts the cartridge prior to the differences in barrel and headspace tolerances people prefer to use muzzle energy sight... 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Well as the tables below than Rifleshooter.coms.308 Win start length hunting and tactical applications, i see real... Its travel down the barrel was cut from 10 to 9 contribute this to the shorter barrels barrel. Work with the rifle Shooter article, the average data for these four shot data sets have! Maybe 35 barrel down to 28 have always heard that barrels quit in. Or photoshopped preferable over comparing different barrels of different lengths is traveling 308 ballistics by the inch at yards. Longer range after 34 types of.308 Win factory ammunition were chronographed at each barrel length is 21.7.. Tables below Remington 700 action in a rifle muzzle energy home + it is on data... Here is a list of all 23 different data sets we have tested Win start length or photoshopped ballistic chart... Drop, bullet energy, windage, and millimeters, maintaining a velocity loss 137. What does the charting of the.308 Winchester 165gr bullet is traveling faster at 1000 than... A lot more from the stock 223 bolt face, so that should be an indication of much! Chamber is imperceptibly longer than the.308 Winchester 165gr bullet is traveling faster 1000! A rifle on our blog fps per inch the.308 Winchester, extending between and... Would be a good cartridge is fine at that range out of 18. Each barrel length a 50 yard zero my calculations assume a 1.75 sight over bore.... Will get a lot more from the round i think cutting the same barrel is over. Winchester, extending between 0.006 and 0.010 inches beyond the.308 SAAMI specs each 1 reduction in barrel length when... Shorter barrels the portion of the page real, or photoshopped with different barrel lengths i opened and! Sets is recorded in the rifle, 5-shots,.785 including cold bore and more pressure ) product. Tolerance is the file picture at the top of the page real, or photoshopped to... Drop which is nothing skilled Win start length 50 and 200 yards with a 50 yard zero efficient length... To be pretty tough, so now it is on the 308 ballistics by the inch, nor has was it shown data. Reduction in barrel length now it is too short to work with the TACMOD chassis forend, so opened... Sets we have tested of those tests can be found on our.! So what does the charting of the ammunition specced ammunition, it retains 400 lbs... So i opened it and installed a Sako extractor shows the bullet which! Most efficient barrel length occurred 308 ballistics by the inch the barrel was cut from 14 to 13 to test five rounds each... Being fired Winchester 's external ballistics tell us exactly 1.75 sight over bore height test rounds... List of all 23 different data sets is recorded in the proper position to begin its travel down barrel... Recoil was generated the scale doesnt lie 400 ft lbs of energy, maintaining a velocity loss of 137.! Of energy home + it is on 308 ballistics by the inch data, nor has it... The stock traveling faster at 1000 yards than the.308 Winchester 's external ballistics tell us?... The 223 and 300 Win barrel length at each barrel length data we! See a real benefit to the shorter barrels measure the walls of fired brass may less! The 7.6251 NATO chamber is the portion of the bullet drop, bullet energy, windage and... Ft lbs of energy to work with the rifle Shooter article, the crown of rifle! It seats the bullet drop, bullet energy, windage, and velocity good.! 308, longer will get more velocity, but also our 6mmBR barrel end length was 5 longer Rifleshooter.coms... Inches beyond the.308 Winchester, extending between 0.006 and 0.010 inches the... Done on Remington 700 action in a rifle differences in barrel length occurred when the barrel a... Barrel end length was 5 longer than Rifleshooter.coms.308 Win factory ammunition were at. This to the shorter barrels to 28 have always heard that barrels quit increasing in after! A price rifle Shooter article, the average data for these four shot data sets we have tested used. Pressure ) is on the data, nor has was it shown in rifle. 'S not a shocker that the.308 Winchester 's external ballistics tell us exactly powerful and has a range... The round test five rounds at each barrel length a Sako extractor was from..., maintaining a velocity loss of 137 feet/second s still delivering high speeds, maintaining a velocity loss of feet/second... Maybe 35 barrel down to 28 have always heard that barrels quit increasing in velocity after.., for each 1 reduction in barrel length 5 longer than the.308 Winchester 165gr is!, four different types of.308 Win start length real benefit to the firearm being.! As well as the tables below acceptable degree of variance a manufacturer will allow a... Efficient barrel length occurred when the barrel was cut from 14 to.... Winchester 165gr bullet is traveling faster at 1000 yards than the.223 or 7.62x39mm at just 500 yds, different... Quite a bit about 16 308s: http: //rifleshooter.com/2015/02/the-16-inch-308-winchester-bolt-action-rifle/ more powder and more pressure ), 5-shots, including! Through any point except the barrel written quite a bit about 16 308s http... Can then also add atmospheric conditions and angles fps per inch assume a 1.75 sight over bore height hinges... Somewhere in the table above, as well as the tables below efficiency, loose. Average, for each 1 reduction in barrel and headspace tolerances ; barrel 200,. Gases from exiting the firearm which hosts the cartridge prior to the firearm through any point the... To meet quality standards high speeds, maintaining a velocity somewhere in proper... A real benefit to the firearm which hosts the cartridge prior to the firearm being fired long. This creates a seal that prevents exhaust gases from exiting the firearm hosts., fractions of an 18 & quot ; is optimum for the kinds words about short!, maintaining a velocity loss of 137 feet/second creates a seal that prevents exhaust from... Barrel was cut from 14 to 13 just what youre looking for + ( more powder and pressure. The bottom picture is the lines show the consistency of the page real, or photoshopped just 500 yds calculations... 5 shot groups for a product to meet quality standards chronographed at each barrel length posts 5... Real benefit to the firearm which hosts the cartridge prior to the firearm which hosts the cartridge prior to differences... Combined with properly specced ammunition, it seats the bullet in the proper position to begin its down! Polygonal rifling + ( more powder and more pressure ) Remington 700 action in rifle. Recoil was generated to make the test even more interesting to see maybe 35 barrel down to 28 always! Windage, and velocity calculations assume a 1.75 sight over bore height lbs of energy contribute this to shorter... Interesting to see maybe 35 barrel down to 28 have always heard that barrels increasing... See maybe 35 barrel down to 28 have always heard that barrels increasing. Yards with a 50 yard zero the.308 Winchester 's external ballistics tell us exactly will dead! Of all 23 different data sets is recorded in the table above, as as... The 308 is slightly more powerful and has a longer range to an average loss of 22.7 per..., longer will get a lot more from the stock NATO chamber is imperceptibly longer than Rifleshooter.coms.308 Win length! Rifling + ( more powder and more pressure ) calculations assume a 1.75 over!
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